?

Log in

No account? Create an account
Yaoi/Yuri and the Straight Guy - Godai Yuhsaku

> Recent Entries
> Archive
> Friends
> Profile
> Wishy-Washy

August 21st, 2001


Previous Entry Share Next Entry
09:55 am - Yaoi/Yuri and the Straight Guy
[Slight clarification/edit: This isn't meant to be about whether a person reads yaoi/yuri. its about how a person who does is percieved. I do read some yaoi/yuri though the selection is not much and don't even mention the goshdamn pilots to me. heh]

Heh

was wandering around the web today and i had a realization.

Well sorta more like an observation.

Now this deals with stereo types mind you.


If someone mentions readers of yaoi to me. Two groups spring to mind.


1. Straight females.
2. Gay men.
(Bi's can go anyway. I'm not dealing with being pc about choices.)


Gay men make sense since that is what the story is generally focusing on.

I've heard the facination of straight females with yaoi explained as 2 factors

1. Twice the number of generally attractive men.
2. No female partner to be jealous of.

I'm not so sure which is why it still puzzles me.


But here's where things make even less sense.


Yuri. The lesbian to Yaoi's ummm gay?

Both of theese genre's now have a convention specifically devoted to them

Yaoi - Yaoi-Con

Yuri - AniLesboCon

Whien i came accross the AniLesboCOn site they were selling shirts with the following quote

"For real women who like their women ... animated"

Now while yes it is only a t-shirt.

I've met with some fans of the more fanatical nature before

BTW No one on my friends list is what i consider fanatical which generally requires you to be forcing beliefs on another.



I'm just curious as what the demographics of the two conventions will be.

I'm sure Yaoi-con will be a fairly even mix between the two groups since its in San Diego and there is supposidly a large amount of gay communities in cali.

Here's the statistic i'd be interested in.

Ignore everyone who lives say 50-100 miles from the con.

look at the ratio of females to males in the remaining. I'd be willing to say it would be something like 2 or 3 women for each man.


However I doubt it would be that escewed? for AniLesboCon.

Eliminate the 100 miles then compare. How many men would be there? I severly doubt that it would be 2-3 men for woman.



I'm just rambling now probably cause i slept on a couch last night.


But ask yourself theese questions.

What pre-conceptions would you have when....

You see a man walk into Yaoi-con?

A woman walk into Yaoi-con?

A man walk into AniLesbocon?

A woman walk into AniLesbocon?


Everyone has pre-conceptions so i wouldn't buy "I don't judge books by covers".

I am open and free going person but i still have pre-conceptions. being open minded simply allows you to move PAST the pre-conceptions.

The only other thing would be to consider the climate inside the con.

Would a gay/straight man/woman feel as comfortable in the con as another of the 4 combinations given that they both enjoy Yaoi/Yuri?

This has been deep thoughts brought to you by sleep dep.
Current Mood: curiouscurious

(23 comments | Leave a comment)

Comments:


(Deleted comment)
[User Picture]
From:godai
Date:August 21st, 2001 07:16 am (UTC)
(Link)
Oh heh so do I.

I read Yaoi/Yuri as well.

Thats why i wondered about perceptions of myself if i went to either of the conventions.

But i'm not likely to go to either con cause i'm not that into yaoi/yuri to spend the money to go cross country.
(Deleted comment)
[User Picture]
From:godai
Date:August 21st, 2001 08:30 am (UTC)
(Link)
Right you can't really tell the difference.
Well you can sometimes but never with any certain accuracy.

I've met some open gay people and have had no problems.

But still the thought of people making assumptions about me bothers me. *shrug*


(Deleted comment)
[User Picture]
From:godai
Date:August 21st, 2001 09:06 am (UTC)
(Link)
Thats one of the perceptions i'm talking about.

Two girls making out does nothing for me.


Now if it was two girls making out with me.
That would be an improvement. heh

(Deleted comment)
[User Picture]
From:azurelunatic
Date:August 21st, 2001 10:37 pm (UTC)
(Link)
hang out with friends, and just chill...

... I know I'm disturbed when people automatically assume that I'm straight and Christian, just because "everybody is". Well, I'm not everybody, and I'm not.

Usually it's the other way around, not the vast majority of the population being gay and the straight guys being the oddballs.

Honestly, a little nervousness is good for y'all... just a shakeup, realize in the deep-down depths that not everybody's straight, as well as intellectually.

Callous? who, me?

--Azz, Voice from the Light /(the other half of the muffled giggling and squealing from the darkness...)
[User Picture]
From:avagoyle
Date:December 14th, 2001 03:05 am (UTC)

where?

(Link)
where can i find this thing?
[User Picture]
From:takami826
Date:August 21st, 2001 07:51 am (UTC)
(Link)
FREAK

BUNCH O DEGENERATE FREAKS


nah jk

I dunno... I'll have to dwell on it

I would probably just figure, fans of whatever genre for whatever reason

if they were stereotypical, well throw in a snicker and I'd go look for cheap/good art
[User Picture]
From:godai
Date:August 21st, 2001 08:05 am (UTC)
(Link)
Yeah sub-groups of any group can be scary.


heh of course the really scary ones are always individuals.
[User Picture]
From:takami826
Date:August 21st, 2001 08:09 am (UTC)

Re:

(Link)
heh tell me about it

I work in Lakewood you know

lol
[User Picture]
From:godai
Date:August 21st, 2001 09:09 am (UTC)
(Link)
Yes but remember i deal with dagorhir people and anime clubs. :)


*shivers*
[User Picture]
From:takami826
Date:August 21st, 2001 09:17 am (UTC)

Re:

(Link)
gah this is true
[User Picture]
From:azurelunatic
Date:August 21st, 2001 08:38 am (UTC)
(Link)
I would expect any woman going to a Yuri-con to not be totally offended if I hit on her, just a "Naah, I only watch" or something of that nature. At a yaoi-con I'd be taking my chances just like out in the real world, though I wouldn't expect anyone to drag in the "God's gonna be real pissed at you, you freak of nature," argument at me.
(Deleted comment)
[User Picture]
From:azurelunatic
Date:August 21st, 2001 08:57 am (UTC)
(Link)
Heck, I hit on my friends who are guys mildly; just because I'm female and they're male doesn't automatically mean that I'm going to be more than mildly interested in them...

I listen to rants with the greatest of cheer, because I deal out rants as well.

You're right, it is a compliment to be hit on, especially when it's done in a generally nice way. First, they find you attractive, and then it's further compliment that the hitting on is witty/clever/subtle/nice rather than lewd/crude.
[User Picture]
From:blackwidow3000
Date:August 21st, 2001 02:19 pm (UTC)

What's the dealeo?

(Link)
Listen here Godai, or Dave or whoever. I am gay, and I don't have a clue as to what your talking about...this con or anime shit. If there happens to be a lot of gay guys there, who gives a shit. I think this is all about your own homophobia, whether or not you think so. I think you fear what others would think of you if you attending this con. You're afraid you'll be labeled some big old queen, and that scares you to death.
[User Picture]
From:azurelunatic
Date:August 21st, 2001 10:39 pm (UTC)

Con/anime shit

(Link)
Um.

What Dave's talking about here would be conventions where the fans of specific animations get together and have a big old party.

Yaoi is a specific genre, focusing on male/male relationships.
Yuri focuses on female/female relationships.

One of the big "Huh?" moments of lots of fandoms, not just animation, is the fact that a whole hell of a lot of female people, dig the whole guy/guy thing. The whole "slash" phenomenon, where fanfiction writers take two (usually male) characters who would not likely in the series have a relationship, and put them together in a relationship, is an example of this.

Thing is about slash and yaoi that a whole lot of people have noticed, there's a surprising number of perfectly straight females who get this incredible kick out of it. The other typical group of people who really like it is of course gay/bi men.

This is really a statistics question here. The numbers on yaoi and guyslash are well-known; about 2 females show up at a yaoi/guyslash con for every 1 guy. Dave's wondering whether there are 2 guys for every 1 woman at a yuri/girlslash convention.

There, some general information on yaoi, yuri, and all that con/anime shit you could care less about.


Next, on to the personal bit.


I happen to have known Dave for quite a while. One of the first things I did, when I first met him online, was try to scare him the hell off, because I was in a really twisted and evil mood that night. The details of my evilness will remain private unless Dave wishes to share with the discussion in general, but suffice to say that this incident, plus the rest of his words and actions while I've known him, tell me that:
a) He's most likely straight
b) He doesn't get scared off from a friendship when guys hit on him
c) He doesn't take BS from homophobes
d) Some really weird, and poorly phrased, stuff comes out of his brain when he's been up too late.
Anyway...

Peace, love, and general ass-kicking of Darth George Lucas,
*azz*
[User Picture]
From:blackwidow3000
Date:August 22nd, 2001 05:06 pm (UTC)

Re: Con/anime shit

(Link)
Sorry, i thought there was something else that was being said. The widow knows when she's wrong. If I've offended anyone sorry.

Lovins only,
b.w.
[User Picture]
From:azurelunatic
Date:August 22nd, 2001 09:45 pm (UTC)

Re: Con/anime shit

(Link)
no problem.

Dave's not the best-organized of guys when it comes to writing, but he's got it where it counts.

:)

-Azz
[User Picture]
From:godai
Date:August 23rd, 2001 08:42 am (UTC)

Re: Con/anime shit

(Link)
No harm, No foul. :)

Heck its not clear what i try and say to myself some times..... like just now. heh
From:dragynspyre
Date:September 5th, 2001 02:17 pm (UTC)

Re: Con/anime shit

(Link)
Tell me about it, I used to live with you.

I can feel Dave trembling now.... he phears my unexpected response to the Yaoi question....

BTW, for Godai's other pals who don't know me, I'm a smartass. Keep that in mind.

>But ask yourself theese questions.
>What pre-conceptions would you have when....

>You see a man walk into Yaoi-con?

If he's overwieght and/or stinky and/or out of style I'd say he was straight.

If he's good looking and smelling nice, he's gay.:P

Seriously:
As for a Yaoi con, there'll be less of the normal male heterosexual crowd, that's for sure. Most straight guys are quite afraid of being associated with anything homosexual for various reasons (insecurity in themselves and a desire for the FORBIDDEN unknowns being some of them). The other males are either straight and outside the norm as far as openness goes (and those who completely accept homosexuality are sadly still not the norm) or bi and/or gay. So the odds of a guy at a Yaoi con being homosexual is a hell of a lot higher than normal as the heterosexual percentage has gone down.

So my preconception would be:
Could be gay, could be straight, could be bi, might even be a girl. Do I need to know? Not really. Do I care? Not really. It won't come into play unless someone decides he likes my big booty and asks me out. I'd be flattered, but I'm straight and would have to figure out a polite way to turn him down.

>A woman walk into Yaoi-con?

Fairly same as the above. I'm sure some will dislike the "guy on guy" theme, but most females tend to be a lot more open minded than males on this, and even with "female on female" themes. A few will even like it a lot for sexual reasons (though they won't admit it, they have to keep up that lady-like appearence). Most guys like girl on girl stuff, so why not women liking guy on guy stuff? Seems reasonable to me. And I doubt it will bother the lesbians. So I don't think the percentage of lesbians will go up that much.

So my preconception would be:
Okay, I'm turning into a hornball. I've controlled my hormones all these years and they've finally broken free. They are currently fighting my morals and I'm not sure how I feel about... anyways.....

If I find her attractive and she has a wonderful personality and is single and appears to not mind having someone in her life at the moment I would be thinking "Please be straight, please be straight..... please be female....". I would believe they were mostly straight because that's what I'd want them to be.

So my uneducated guestimation of people at Yaoi con would be:
Males: 20-30% gay (from the 10-15% anime fan normal)
Females: 5-15% gay (from the 2-10% anime fan normal)

So Godai, if you were to go, I would assume you were most likely straight, if that makes you feel any better you homophobe you. :P

>A man walk into AniLesbocon?

This gets a bit more complicated. Lesbians tend to only scare off Bible thumpers, and they aren't too common in anime fandom. Hell, most anime I know of is almost littered with lesbians all ready. Anime with lesbian themes or lesbians in them cover all of the anime spectrum. The Japanese are well aware of the fanboy fan base. I don't think the theme wouls scare off too many straight males (okay, none). As for gay men, I don't think this would bother them either.

My assumption:
The usual horny fanboy base with a few of everything else thrown in for good measure just like any other con.

>A woman walk into AniLesbocon?

Lebianism doesn't seem to bother straight women that much either. So once again I don't think it would scare off too many.

My assumption:
The usual fangirl base with a few of everything else thrown in for good measure just like any other con.

So my unedumacated guess:
Males: 10%-15% gay.
Females:2-10% gay.
From:dragynspyre
Date:September 5th, 2001 02:20 pm (UTC)

Re: Con/anime shit

(Link)
I see there's a 5000 character limit here. I had to quickly shave off 7000 of them. DOH!
[User Picture]
From:godai
Date:September 5th, 2001 02:32 pm (UTC)

Re: Con/anime shit

(Link)
Unexpected?

Yeah right.

More like expected.

Btw thoose questions were somewhat rehtorical.

Your percentages are going to be screwed no matter what you do since there has been no otaku census.

*shrugs*



From:dragynspyre
Date:September 6th, 2001 08:08 am (UTC)

Re: Con/anime shit

(Link)
>Unexpected?
>Yeah right.
>More like expected.

Dave, Dave. You know me too well.

>Btw thoose questions were somewhat rehtorical.

I felt left out after the long posting list. I also felt this strange need to comment on your journal, and as I'm not into all the wierd stuff and people you posted about, this was one of the few things I could say something about.

>Your percentages are going to be screwed no >matter what you do since there has been no otaku >census.

Thus the unedumacated guestimation. That census might be something interesting to look into though. From my own experiences, the percentages of certain minority groups appear to be higher at caons and in the anime community. How high though? And why? I assume the openness of the anime community to be the main reason, but maybe there are other reasons. A census will probably never happen though. What are they going to do, put questionares on the sign in sheets? And a lot of people would just check the "none of your damn buisness" box. But hey, it's a market. AniLesbo Con proves that. If someone could find out this info, there's money to be made.

BTW. My VCR ate your D4 Princess tape.
[User Picture]
From:avagoyle
Date:December 14th, 2001 03:20 am (UTC)

from a huge yaoi fan

(Link)
i admit, i worship yaoi. i like it better than straight stuff. (which is kinda wierd, b/c i am a mostly straight female) the great majority of yaoi fans are female. i know several gay males who are into yaoi, but then tend to not like the great majority of it, because it is very different from usual gay stuff. i have seen gay porn from japan and it is typically not stuff that turns me on or i find very interesting. most gay stuff involves very masculine men while most yaoi involves bishounen.

yaoi has a /long/ history in japan. some of the earliest manga and anime are shounen ai/yaoi. censorship was pushed in japan not by hentai (as known by the typical definition, as male/female) but by female mangaka for shounen ai.

1. Straight females.
2. Gay men.
(Bi's can go anyway. I'm not dealing with being pc about choices.)

*but bi females make a great majority of female yaoi fandom. actually, the biggest amont from what i have seen

Gay men make sense since that is what the story is generally focusing on.

*actually, most gay men dont like yaoi. the guys involved are far too girly and as the situation is aimed more for females, they dont like it as much.

I've heard the facination of straight females with yaoi explained as 2 factors
1. Twice the number of generally attractive men.
2. No female partner to be jealous of.

*i like yaoi for a number of reasons. first of all, males in general are sexier to me. especially feminine ones. yaoi is full of guys that look and act like girls. another reason is that most female anime/manga characters annoy me. they are maryjane (in the case of fics), over sexed (huge boobs, tiny waist) or mindless. the exceptions to this are not enough for my tastes. also, it shows guys being emotional, sweet, doing things that guys often dont do. i like my guys to be feminine. the guy i am now in love with is (mostly) straight, but he shaves, wears dresses and is more a female than i am.

look at the ratio of females to males in the remaining. I'd be willing to say it would be something like 2 or 3 women for each man.

*oh, far more females than that. it was more like 5 women for each man XD ::is on alot of yaoi mls::

You see a man walk into Yaoi-con?

*think that he is gay, bi-curious, bi, a /huge/ anime fan of anykind, or was dragged by a female XD

A woman walk into Yaoi-con?

*someone i know XD actually, most yaoi fans are older than the general anime population. a great majority (of the ones that run the major lists and attend the cons) are professional women

A man walk into AniLesbocon?

*an anime fan. maybe bi, maybe straight, maybe gay who knows

A woman walk into AniLesbocon?

*probably a yaoi fan

Would a gay/straight man/woman feel as comfortable in the con as another of the 4 combinations given that they both enjoy Yaoi/Yuri?

*i am confused as to what you mean by this question.
[User Picture]
From:godai
Date:December 14th, 2001 06:35 am (UTC)

Re: from a huge yaoi fan

(Link)
It mostly comes down to personal taste.

oh as to the confusing question written out...

gay man
straight man
gay woman
straight woman

would any of theese feel more or less comfortable at the con given that they all enjoy yaoi or yuri.

it was pretty much just a rhetorical question recapping the entire post. i was too lazy to type it out.

> Go to Top
LiveJournal.com